KDL42W653a - Motionflow setting disappeared!

[adam_cr]

HELP!

I bought myself a KDL42W653a last week and, initially, was very impressed. The first night I popped on a DVD, fiddled with the settings and found one for 'motionflow' which made the display look super fluid. At the same time, I also changed a setting for audio delay (in ms) because the audio became slightly out of sync with the picture.

Since that night, however, both options have disappeared. The image played from the DVD player is now back to 'normal' and absolutely nothing I change can get the 'motionflow' setting back. I've noticed that a number of people on the net have asked why the motionflow setting is not included on this model (despite it being a Motionflow "00hz TV!) but trust me, IT WAS THERE! It made a wonderful difference to the quality of films and now I'm pretty annoyed that it has gone. Has an erroneous system update since the night I plugged in the TV perhaps removed the option?

If anyone could help me I'd be really grateful... including Sony officials. 

[Chesterflaps]

I did find this part interesting form their reply though

"Motionflow is disabled in following scenarios:

                     A.      When TV Scene selection is set to Game, Graphics or Photo.

                     B.      Picture mode is set to “Custom” with 3D & 4K material.

        · Naturally menu for Motionflow is not active in these cases."

Mainly the final sentence. So they are saying if you use a scene other than Game, Graphics or Photo, there should be a 'Motionflow' menu. I cannot see one, can you?

[Robbo9999]

Hi Chesterflaps, yes I was just referring to Film Mode (I added the 24fps bit, because I think that mode de-interlaces the picture and runs it at 24fps), so you're right in turning that mode off if you want to see any Motionflow.  Did you notice it being smoother when you watched Family Guy?

About Sony's quote:   "Naturally menu for Motionflow is not active in these cases.".  I took it as meaning that there is no Motionflow menu full stop, due to the fact that they say Motionflow is implemented automatically at certain Presets (there isn't a Motionflow menu anywhere).

[PDakota]

Hi Guys

I'd like to jump on this thread as I'm having the exact same issue with my new TV: KDL-WE753.  It's FHD HDR and advertised with 400hz Motionflow.  I used to have an LG that used frame interpolation and the difference between that 6-year-old TV and my £600 2017 TV is massive in regards to motion.  There is NO WAY my Bravia is using frame interpolation in any scene.  And, like you, there is no Motionflow menu or setting anywhere; just LED Motion.

I started my own thread here.

A responder in that thread has said that LED Motion turns Motionflow on.  Which couples with Sony's resposne to you saying that it's on in certain scenes as the advanced menu dissapears, for instance, in the Game scene.

That said I am detecting no practical difference with LED Motion on or off, or even in scene modes that supposedly don't use Motionflow at all.  My 6 year old LG was better than this.

I'm starting to believe that this TV is simply not capable of inserting additional frames, or Sony have simply not coded the firmware to allow it.  But yet this TV still comes with the "Motionflow 400hz" banner, which, upon investigation by any reasonable consumer, would imply frame interpolation; it's the headline technique that Sony advertise for this feature.  I get the 'multiple techniques' approach, but I still think this is seriosuly irresponsible by Sony.

Have you gone into this any further with Sony?

[Robbo9999]

Hi, I've gone no further with Sony on the "Motionflow Issue".  I was relatively happy that they communicated with me via e-mail and assured me that Motionflow was active automatically depending on the Scene Mode selected & the input:  so I took this to mean I get Motionflow by using Sport mode when watching 1080i content.  I've never experienced Frame Insertion on other TV's so don't have a reference to say 'Oh yeah, this looks better'.  I believe there is a slightly smoother appearance with Sport scene mode activated when watching sport versus using Cinema scene mode, but I can't be sure - likely placebo!  I have my doubts whether Motionflow really happens on my TV (2013 version), but it's a good TV, I'm happy with it.

I noticed in your thread, one of the posters posted a link it was this one (http://sony-eur-eu-en-web--eur.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/65562/),  that really describes & gives you your answer.  The answer being that your TV automatically uses Motionflow technology depending on input & Scene mode selected.  Here is a quote from that link:

"Motionflow activity depends on the selected Scene Mode and Input. Motionflow settings can be adjusted with almost all types of inputs, but only on TV models which feature the Motionflow menu.

NOTE: 2014 BRAVIA TV's between 32” – 48” screen sizes do not feature the Motionflow settings menu. On those models, Motionflow is always active."

So the above means you don't have the menu for Motionflow, but it should be active - I reckon if you select Sport scene mode & watch 1080i content then I reckon Motionflow will kick on.

[PDakota]

Thanks for the reply mate.

It's so frustrating.  I'm a tech savvy guy and even I feel like I've been duped by Sony with the MotionFlow 400hz tag, let alone the rest of the public who have no idea what they've actually paid for.

I use my new TV mostly for PS4Pro gaming, so forcing the resolution to 1080i seems like an own goal..  I'll try Sports mode and see if I notice any change.

Of course this means I have to manually swtich to HDR for HDR content as the Auto TV setting will force "Game" for a game, reportedly turning off MotionFlow, which is incredibly useful for gaming...

Feels like Sony have just purposefully borked the software on some models to remove features.  However the WE753 is their top of the range FHD set... it should have everything the hardware is capable of doing.

3-4 years later and they're still at it.  I'm contemplating my own complain give this TV is mean to be top of the line.  Thoughts?

[Robbo9999]

You don't have to force your TV to 1080i, because it'll automatically use 1080i on TV broadcasts that use 1080i rather than 1080p.  For instance, sports programs and news items are often broadcast in 1080i, and in contrast films & dramas are often broadcast on 1080p - so my TV just switches automatically between them.  For your PS4 gaming I reckon 1080i would produce a smoother experience than 1080p, because 1080p is 25 (or 24) fps (frames per second), whereas 1080i is more like 50fps albeit it's interlaced.  That's why sport is broadcast in 1080i (interlaced) & film is broadcast in 1080p (progressive) - 1080p gives crisper image but a lower frame rate.  I use Freeview, so don't know what format Sky transmits:  1080i or 1080p - but I'd imagine it flips between the two depending on the content being delivered to your set.

I think your Motionflow will kick on when using 1080i + Sport Scene Mode

[PDakota]

So for gaming, there's basically no way to have MotionFlow for 1080p?  Unless I force my PS4 to output at 1080i in its own settings?  Some games are natvie 1080p60fps, so having to set 1080i to "trick" my top of the line SONY TV to engage MotionFlow while playing games on my top of the range SONY Playstaion is total madness...

[Robbo9999]

When I read up on what Motionflow actually is (back in 2013/2014), I remember coming to the conclusion that it seemed to need interlaced content to function - nowhere did it state this on Sony sites or anywhere else, it was a conclusion I came to based on descriptions & diagrams I found on Sony's websites with regard to how Motionflow works. I remember the little diagrams showing interlaced content (i.e. half screens per frame) in the Motionflow explanation diagrams.  This is why I concluded that Motionflow would only function on interlaced material.  If they've changed how Motionflow works in the recent years I do not know.  It kind of makes sense to base Motionflow around interlaced material because TV content produced for smoothness (sport & regular TV programs) is always in 1080i, whereas films & some dramas is focussing on a more cinematic look (24fps/25fps) hence the 1080p and therefore no real desire or reason to turn those type of broadcasts into smooth "soap opera effect" experiences - so to me this makes sense that Motionflow targets the 1080i material but leaves the 1080p material alone & unaltered.

[Robbo9999]

EDIT to my previous post:

Looks like Motionflow might not be limited to interlaced (1080i) material, I think I may have misinterpreted the little Motionflow diagram I saw.  I've found the diagram again, here it is (look for Motionflow XR200 on this page):  https://www.sony-mea.com/microsite/bravia/led-backlit-lcd-tv-picture-quality.html

Praps this will work on 1080p material too, I am unsure.

EDIT:  Although zooming in on that diagram to look closely, you can see that it's referring to the orginal broadcast producing a frame once every 1/50th of a second, which points to 50Hz which points to 1080i material.  Difficult to explain how I came that conclusion, I'll try:  diagram is showing a frame being displayed 100 times per second (100Hz panel), alternating between an interpolated frame & an original true frame, so 100Hz divided by 2 = 50Hz original frame content - this must be 1080i.  Yeah, I reckon Motionflow only works with interlaced material, at least Motionflow XR200 anyway.

EDIT #2:  Motionflow XR800 diagram at that above link is also showing 50Hz orginal content - so again pointing that both XR800 & XR200 version of Motionflow is reliant on 50Hz (e.g. 1080i) content.